InventorEd, Inc. Presents:

Invention Promoter Caution List

This is the second communication I received about Andrew Abrams, AKA Agent Andy

Click here to break out of Frame

Have you been Scammed? Find out what to do here.

==============================

----- Original Message -----
From:
Gold Coast
To:
Ronald J. Riley
Sent:
Sunday, July 30, 2000 9:33 AM
Subject: From James Dunn

Hi Ron, I think you know who I am but if not I am the guy in the middle of the Agent Andy thing (James Dunn)   I posted to the forum today about the points Andy put in a reply to Milt Songy. I had thought I was done with this but it keeps coming back......... Anyway I think that you need to have your web page right if you are not taken it down. I will send you the email in it's entirety that I first received from Andy. I will also send the next 2 following as you will be better able to fix the couple of quotes that are mixed up on the web page. I am doing this just for the truth in the matter not any preference to which side is right or wrong. Also you posted today saying that you believed that I did not have a NDA with Andy, "I have" and will keep him to it. If you read my post their is a part about breach of trust with Andy quoting from the confidential agreement we had with Tom, this rely annoyed me. Not because Tom said that, "I needed Andy more than he needed me", but all this was agreed to be just between us and was not for public display.     >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

This is the 1st email...........   Re: Paint saver device...
Do you have a fax number where I can send the signed NDA?

Otherwise, I may be able to scan it and attach it to an e-mail. But fax is
easier for me.

<><><><>

The concept is valid. Sometimes it's the simple ones that are best.

Have you searched the IBM patent website for similar devices?

I see some problems; and I have the design solutions. Shall we co-invent? I
can
send an NDA on my concept to you.

James - Please be advised that co-invention is really not an objective of my
business. My inventiveness would serve me best, if I would apply it to my own
projects. Perhaps due to my industrial design background, or simply creative
abilities, this improvement on inventions  of others is happening more
frequently. I'm sorry to muddy the waters of our mutual pleasure of creating
and marketing concepts by discussing business matters. This is the third such
situation that has come up for me this week; and I have to know what to do
about it. This is new to me because of my recent switch from doing business
mostly with designers to doing business with inventors.

My business is based upon inventions of others; and I partner with the
inventor
by contributing my licensing skills. However, when I see weaknesses in
concepts
that otherwise have some merit, I am faced with a dilemma. Do I say nothing;
and proceed with licensing something that I know is not as good as the
improved
version? ...not too exciting. Do I say nothing; and legally pursue the
improved
concept independent of the inventor? ...Does not sound like something Andrew
Abrams would enjoy doing ...doesn't sound very ethical to me.

I would like to propose the following business option that I feel would
benefit
you, as well as, me as the co-inventor.

1) I will present the improvement to you under the same conditions of
confidentiality that you have presented your concept to me. I will send a
written and/or sketched description on an NDA for your signature.

2) You decide if my improvement is valid, or not.

3) a) You "do not" think that my revision is important enough ...we proceed
with my standard licensing procedure ...and you agree that I can do anything I
want with my invention provided it does not in any manner violate your rights
to your concept either legally, or ethically.

3) b) You "do not" think that my revision is important enough ...I say that I
can't, in my heart of hearts, proceed with licensing something that I know is
inferior ...and we each go on our merry way ...you are free to pursue
licensing
your concept ...and I am free to pursue my concept (or do nothing)  ...all the
while we will maintain the mutual confidentiality of each individual concept.

3) c) You "do" think that my revision is important ...We proceed as
co-inventors and co-owners of the new intellectual property ...I create the
presentation materials (drawings, samples, etc.) or, we each do pieces as is
practical ...I will charge you a design fee (co-invention fee?) for improving
your concept ...I will proceed with attempting to license our jointly owned
concept. If I don't license it, you are free to license it. Upon closing a
licensing agreement (by either one of us) with a manufacturer,  the sharing of
royalties will be on the same equal sharing basis as in my normal licensing
agent business.

James - Please don't misunderstand this circumstance. My creation of this
business mode is not because I think anything in particular about you, your
abilities, or your projects. It's simply a matter of approximately two dozen
such projects that I'm helping others with; and yours tipped the scale a
bit. I
will be making this same proposal to the others. As always, I am most happy to
review projects and offer professional feedback without charging a fee. I
consider that an investment in the input end of my business. The more I can
help people like yourself; the better off I will be also. The creation of
improvements or additional intellectual property however, is beyond the scope
of either coaching or licensing.

If you are interested in proceeding in the manner described, let me know and I
will prepare a NDA and a fee proposal for the Paint Saver project. Otherwise,
we can simply proceed without my improvements. The integrity of our
relationship and confidentiality of your project will be assured by me, under
any circumstance.

Thank you in advance for your understanding in this matter.



Andrew Abrams aka AGENT ANDY
Licensing Agent and Career Coach
email: sparx@intercall.net
Lyndhurst, New Jersey, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  

 This was my reply ...........>Andys words<   Re; Paint saving devise, Don't take this the wrong way but if we do business together I need to be sure of some things. Andy I will start at the beginning of your email and work down. Fax I think the county code for Aus is 61,my fax no 03 97709838 >Sometime the simple one is best<. Well this is simple. >IBM search< Yes I had a look through, did not find any but I am no expert. > I see problems...  I have design solutions.. co-invent<. Problems? it seems to simple to have problems? >Design solutions<, how can a round disc have a design solution? >Co-invent<, I do not mind this if it will get the devise on the market. need more info on how you see this working. >Muddy waters<, Hey don't sweat it, better clear everything at the beginning > Weakness in design should be worked out<, I agree. >Dilemma, Do I say nothing and do an legally improved concept<. Well I have a problem with this, how can you legally use an idea of someone else and improve it. Surly that is not legal or ethical, after all you would not have the idea by yourself just pirate someone's concepts I know that you are just putting a overview forward, but in your heart you know you would be wrong to peruse this direction (as would I if it were me we have to sleep at night). >Business options< >(1)&(2) Present improved devise, NDA to me<. That is ok by me I would like to see what you have in mind. I am a man of my word and will treat it as, for my eyes only. >(3)a) Do my concept as is, you proceed with your offshoot<. I don't think we would get far using this option, do you. >(3)b)< Same answer as 3a. >(3)c) Co-inventors, co-owners<. Look Andy I am not greedy and this is only one of the many good ideas I have, I let you have this to see how we get on (as I like your style on the inventNet) and maybe let you have a look at one after another. I don't understand how we can be co-inventors, co-owners, if I pay you to draw up the "improved concept". Then surely I have owner rights to this improvement not co-owner? If we become partners in this and maybe some other inventions I have. It should be 50/50 on everything. This the first invention I have tried to "license", but not my first sucsess at inventing. I know you are in a business and need to make money, but from where I sit you are in a win/win situation (good business position). As I said before I am a honest person who would not do wrong by anybody, I have pride in myself and want to be fair in this. Explain your position to give me a better view of it After reading the above if you think I have grasped the wrong idea of how things work in the licensing business please let me know. We need to be clear (or I do anyway) before we start as I will stick to what is agreed on come hell or high water. Summarise, You fax me the improvements you think the devise needs and if they are suitable we can sort out this drawing and improvement payment. >Thank you in advance for your understanding in this matter< Hey I am not sure I do. James Dunn   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< This is Andys reply.........the (JD) was not in the email but may help you to understand it better.   At 02:32 PM 3/12/99 +1100, you wrote: 

Re; Paint saving devise,
Don't take this the wrong way but if we do business together I need to be
sure of some things.
(JD)

<><><>

REPLY >>> I agree. That is why I'm bringing up this matter. I will not do
anything without your approval and complete agreement.

<><><>


Andy I will start at the beginning of your email and work down.
Fax I think the county code for Aus is 61,my fax no 03 97709838
(JD)

<><><>

REPLY >>> For future reference ...full number from USA is 011 61 3 97709838
(note 3 ... not 03) Fax sent.

<><><>


>(1)&(2) Present improved devise, NDA to me<.   That is ok by me I would like to
see what you have in mind. I am a man of my word and will treat it as,
for my eyes only.
(JD)

<><><>

REPLY >>> There's no point in my working up the description and drawings if we
don't agree on the business arrangement for the design work. I think we should
just pass on this one and move on to the next. I don't think I can find a home
for your project as is but I would encourage you to pursue it.

I absolutely will not do anything with my thoughts about improvement under the
circumstance that I'm passing on this one. I simply can't put in the extra
time
without payment ...Please understand that the problem is that I have many
similar circumstances. It has nothing to do with you, or your project.

Let's move on to other projects.


Andrew Abrams aka AGENT ANDY
Licensing Agent and Career Coach
email: sparx@intercall.net
Lyndhurst, New Jersey, USA
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 

I sent Andy this email in reply.........I was being nice as I was scared that he was going to just take the idea for himself. I also wanted to find out how much he charged as he said he did not charge money for his services.   Andy, I think you are right about moving on to other projects. Just keep the info on this near at hand as I still think you are the right person for the job of licensing it (if you still want to do it). At the moment I am just about to get my new invention on the market so I do not have the spare money to get you to do the drawings at the moment. If you think you can find a licensee with us co-inventing I will try to get the money but it will be a few months. I posted on inventNet (I did it my way) about how I got my invention from start to orders for no money. This is where the invention is at right now, I need all my money to get it to the next step. Buying the stock from the manufacturer. I tried for 30 day credit as I have sales but he said he thought is was about time he seen some of my money for a change (I had to agree). I tried to get the buying Company to pay up front but the best I could do is C.O.D. I am still happy about that though. So as you see my money is all tied up and I don't want to borrow money from anywhere (by the way I am a Scot maybe that explains about being careful about money). I have one ace left, I am talking to a world wide company who are getting a legal opinion about my invention and if it is ok they want to advertise there name on it so maybe I will manage to get it all done for free. With the paint idea and another 4 ideas that I have, I do not want to do these myself as it took 2 years with the one I am doing now. That is why I want to license them. I have inventions to do with, toilet, crowed control, golf cart, shopping trolleys. These are ones at least as good as the paint devise, I gave you that as it is simple one to start with. let me know how much you think this drawing will cost me. James.   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Andys reply............   At 05:19 PM 3/12/99 +1100, you wrote:

Andy, I think you are right about moving on to other projects. Just keep the
info on this near at hand as I still think you are the right person for the
job of licensing it (if you still want to do it). At the moment I am just
about to get my new invention on the market so I do not have the spare money
to get you to do the drawings at the moment. If you think you can find a
licensee with us co-inventing I will try to get the money but it will be a
few months. (JD)
<><><>
REPLY >>> Above is noted and agreed.
<><><>

I posted on inventNet (I did it my way) about how I got my invention from
start to orders for no money. This is where the invention is at right now, I
need all my money to get it to the next step. Buying the stock from the
manufacturer. I tried for 30 day credit as I have sales but he said he
thought is was about time he seen some of my money for a change (I had to
agree). I tried to get the buying Company to pay up front but the best I
could do is C.O.D. I am still happy about that though. So as you see my
money
is all tied up and I don't want to borrow money from anywhere (by the way I
am a Scot maybe that explains about being careful about money). I have one
ace left, I am talking to a world wide company who are getting a legal
opinion about my invention and if it is ok they want to advertise there name
on it so maybe I will manage to get it all done for free.
(JD) <><><>

REPLY >>> I noticed, from some of the InventNet posts that followed your post,
of your story, that there were some who believed that your method would not
work consistently. I think you left out the part about needing capital for
inventory, in telling your story. The original story sounded like a done deal.
Finding, or risking your own, capital is the most difficult part of invention
venturing. Not impossible ...just difficult!

Are you aware that you can do licensing and manufacturing simultaneously? You
can license the concept; and use the advance money to conduct your own
marketing (and pay for initial inventory) under the provisions of a Cottage
Industry Clause, or by tight definition of market and/or territory.

<><><>
let me know how much you think this drawing will cost me. (JD)
<><><>

REPLY >>> I would not want to take on this task, for a fee, if you are
devoting
money (on a tight budget) to your current invention. I would like to see you
close that deal first ....(this is Agent Andy, the "Coach" speaking).
However, to give you an idea of what might be involved in such "design" work
(not only drawing), here's my thinking...
Concept review, notation of good attributes and weaknesses from point of view
of patent, manufacturing, marketing, and ease of use. Create solutions to
weaknesses, produce initial sketches, write text description of improved
design, create name or any other merchandising improvements, and produce final
presentation drawing.
CONCEPT REVIEW - My fee for the Paint Saver concept (or any future
submissions) is $90 consisting of: review your presentation ($45) and verbally discuss
weaknesses in fifteen minute telephone consultation ($45) ...no improvement
suggestions ...simply a professional critique. Otherwise projects can be
reviewed (with NDA) and with no comment, if I decide to pass on the licensing
without a fee.

CONCEPT DEVELOPMENT - If the Concept Review calls for improvement of the
project; and you want me to help with the improvement ... My fee for a project
comparable to the Paint Saver concept would be $700.

All fee based business is started upon receipt by me of a commencement payment
of fifty percent of the stated fee; and all intellectual property created
by me remains my property (however partially by grant of rights to you) whether
it is jointly owned by us, or not. The payment of the design fee would not entitle
you to sole ownership of the rights, in the parts created by me, unless a
buyout is agreed upon.

Andrew Abrams aka AGENT ANDY
Licensing Agent and Career Coach
email: sparx@intercall.net
Lyndhurst, New Jersey, USA   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 

This email is the one I sent to Paul with his reply on it. I never sent the email to anyone else. Andy thinks I sent it to you. But it must have been Paul that did it.   James,

I knew at once who it was for several reason not the least of which he tried pulling this exact same thing on one of my clients when I referred them to him. (He informed you in his letter that he would be putting the same deal in front of a dozen or so other people.)

The situation I encountered was a simple thing like you had. He wanted to be a co-inventor. He went through all the rhetoric you read through. I simply told him his contribution was nowhere near that of an inventor and at best it was an obvious alteration and at worst he was trying to claim that he invented what my client invented. He backed down dramatically and instantly.

I have fought many rounds against him and will continue to do so. I don't believe in how he does business. His name is Agent Andy.

I think others will recognize him if not by his behavior then by his "<><><>" or calling himself "coach." I would like to forward this to a couple of the personalities on InventNet with your permission so that people are aware of what is going on and may do something if they choose it to be appropriate.

Paul

At 02:30 PM 3/14/99 +1100, you wrote:
>>>>

From James Dunn
To Paul Friederichs
Re Do you think this is some sort of scam?

Paul I know you are a busy man but this email bellow has me a bit worried. The person that sent it is a regular on inventNet forum so I won't put his name on it. I maybe wrong and I don't want to upset anyone. It smells of a form letter so I think it may be something that he uses on most of the first time inventors. If read it is forcing me to pay him for drawings or he will use one of the other options, which is taking my idea for himself, I don't think he means this just trying to make me pay for drawings I think. Just for your info as you know the people at inventNet and if you think more action is necessary it is up to you I am not to worried about it. I sent him a reply which is also bellow.   ===================================================================== The reply I sent that the above talks about is the 2nd email on this list. So that is the full part for your file with nothing left out. So as you can see I was forthright with Andy. At this time I left Australia and went on holiday to Scotland for 6 weeks. This is when all the fireworks started and I did not know anything about them till I came back. While I was away Andy sent me 2 emails that I could take him to court over if I wished, for defamation of character. They accuse me of being on drugs and the like, but I will not show them to anyone unless he makes any more attacks on me on the forum. As I said at the beginning of this, the reply to Milt rely got to me. He seems to have a selective memory when it suits him.  Again this is for you to fix up the web sight, I can defend myself if I need to. I do not want to start this over again but will not let anyone say things that are not "all the truth" and bend it to make them look better. James Dunn. 
=======================================

  ----- Original Message -----
From: Ronald J Riley
To:
Gold Coast
Sent:
Sunday, July 30, 2000 9:58 AM
Subject:
Re: From James Dunn
I am truly sorry that you were exposed to all this controversy.  I do wish you well and I understand that you want to succeed with your inventions.   Last, are you willing to have your name posted with these, or would you like to keep it off as I did with the original complaint?   Ronald J. Riley  www.InventorEd.org/

----- Original Message -----
From: Gold Coast
To:
Ronald J Riley
Sent:
Sunday, July 30, 2000 10:27 AM
Subject:
Re: From James Dunn

Ron, I have no problem with you using my name I think everyone knows who I am. I also think it will be easer for continuity and the emails should be posted unedited anyway. James Dunn.

Blue bar graphic divides sectins of the page

National Inventor Fraud Center, was founded by a young attorney who worked for ISC as an intern.

Another information source is: Invention Marketing Companies .

National Congress of Inventor Organizations (NCIO)

Blue bar graphic divides sectins of the page

Have you been Scammed? Find out what to do here.
Please Notify Us Of Any Errors Of Fact - Click ErrorOfFact

Blue bar graphic divides sectins of the page

Site Index - Contact Us - InventorEd, Inc., Page last revised 3-8-2004

Smiley face which turns to a frown

Unhappy Customer

Wallet with money flying away

$10,000 to $20,000 Wasted money

Source FTC Jodie Bernstein